Hot Gossip: A Conversation with Jen Pelka

00:11:42:09 - 00:11:46:02
Hannah
All right. Today's guest is Jen Palka, a woman whose work
00:11:46:02 - 00:12:00:13
Hannah
makes space for joy, power, and beautifully unapologetic
glamor. She's the founder of the Riddler, the wildly beloved
champagne bar, and redefined what a hospitality brand could
feel like an unfamiliar, sparkling wine label designed to toast
to women everywhere.
00:12:00:13 - 00:12:06:13
Hannah
We talk about the creative risks, brand clarity, reinvention, and
what it means to bet on your own vision again and again.
00:12:06:15 - 00:12:08:10
Hannah
This episode is for anyone building something
00:12:08:10 - 00:12:13:15
Hannah
that feels personal, intentional, and just a little bit fabulous.
Let's dive in. Hi, Jen.
00:12:13:15 - 00:12:15:19
Jen
Hi. How are you? So good. How are you?
00:12:15:19 - 00:12:17:12
Hannah
I'm so good. Thanks for being here.

00:12:17:12 - 00:12:18:10
Jen
Thanks for having me.
00:12:18:10 - 00:12:24:15
Hannah
Yeah. We're so excited to talk to you today for so many
reasons. And we're going to get into a lot of it.
00:12:24:17 - 00:12:40:14
Hannah
But I really would love, for you to just start by telling us kind of
your, your background, your introduction into hospitality. And,
you didn't really start in food, but you ended up in food, and
now you're adjacent to it. So give us the trajectory.
00:12:40:14 - 00:12:47:12
Jen
Totally. Yeah. So I have always loved restaurants and also
entertaining at home.
00:12:47:13 - 00:13:04:07
Jen
You know, my parents threw dinner parties all the time at the
house, and that just became really integrated into our family
culture. And when I went to college, I went to Stanford and
studied philosophy, and which was the one major my parents
told me I could not major
00:13:04:07 - 00:13:08:16
Hannah
in. And you're like, oh, that's the one then. And,

00:13:08:16 - 00:13:18:04
Jen
when I graduated, I, throughout college had been, getting
more and more interested in food and wine and entertaining.
00:13:18:04 - 00:13:27:01
Jen
And I was the social manager of my house, for example, and
would throw wine and cheese parties where I would, like, go
to Trader Joe's and buy only French wine and only French
cheeses.
00:13:27:12 - 00:13:29:18
Hannah
Is that your sorority? Sorority house?
00:13:29:18 - 00:13:33:09
Jen
I wasn't it necessarily was sort of a similar concept. They
00:13:33:09 - 00:13:34:22
Hannah
Do they have sorority sisters?
00:13:34:22 - 00:13:35:18
Jen
They do.
00:13:35:19 - 00:13:51:10
Jen
But they have like these coed houses as well. And so. Yeah.
So I was just, I was getting more and more interested in
entertaining. And I told my parents as I was graduating, that I
wanted to move to San Francisco and get a small business
loan. And open a restaurant.

But they have like these coed houses as well. And so. Yeah.
So I was just, I was getting more and more interested in
entertaining. And I told my parents as I was graduating, that I
wanted to move to San Francisco and get a small business
loan. And open a restaurant.
00:13:51:10 - 00:13:57:03
Jen
so they're like, absolutely not get a real job, move to New
York, like start your life. And so
00:13:57:03 - 00:13:58:18
Hannah
best advice you've ever been given.
00:13:58:18 - 00:14:06:15
Jen
well, I don't know, I got a job at a hedge fund. And, I was
working there for, I don't know, six months or something.
00:14:06:15 - 00:14:14:22
Jen
When I found out that you could work in kitchens, in
restaurants, as what was called a stage, they don't really do
them anymore because now they're illegal. Because it's free
00:14:14:22 - 00:14:21:10
Hannah
really. You have to pay. You have to pay in people to work in
the modern day.
00:14:21:10 - 00:14:29:08
Jen
post MeToo era, you have to pay employees. But yeah, it was
a, longstanding tradition, especially in France, for people to
apprentice in kitchens

post MeToo era, you have to pay employees. But yeah, it was
a, longstanding tradition, especially in France, for people to
apprentice in kitchens
00:14:29:08 - 00:14:34:00
Hannah
It's kind of a bummer. It's like such a cool it's system.
00:14:34:00 - 00:14:59:15
Jen
an incredible way for people to gain access to what it was like
to work in a fine dining kitchen without any experience. And it
was also a way for restaurants to be able to subsidize their
labor pool. But it is good that people are paid now, but, but
yeah, I had heard that it was possible to get one of these
apprenticeships, and I had been doing a lot of cooking at
home and, doing some pretty advanced culinary projects for a
22 year old.
00:14:59:17 - 00:15:21:08
Jen
And, one day I was at my favorite bar, Schiller's, in the Lower
East Side, which is it is no longer, but it was owned by the
same guy who owns Balthazar and pasties, more of a diner
feel, but, we were there all the time. It was our local, and there
was a guy at the bar who was reading a book about chefs,
and, he got up to smoke cigarets.
00:15:21:08 - 00:15:38:08
Jen
Then he came back and I was like, oh, excuse me, are you a
chef? And he's like, oh, yeah, I'm a chef at Danielle on the
Upper East Side. And he was reading this book about, a
michelin three star chef, Bernard Lazo, who had three
Michelin stars and lost a star and committed suicide. And
yeah, wild, wild story.

Then he came back and I was like, oh, excuse me, are you a
chef? And he's like, oh, yeah, I'm a chef at Danielle on the
Upper East Side. And he was reading this book about, a
michelin three star chef, Bernard Lazo, who had three
Michelin stars and lost a star and committed suicide. And
yeah, wild, wild story.
00:15:38:08 - 00:15:44:08
Jen
True story. And so we started chit chatting and I was like, oh, I
really want to come, like work at a kitchen sometime. And he
was
00:15:44:08 - 00:15:45:09
Hannah
like, you're like, that sounds great.
00:15:45:09 - 00:15:48:11
Hannah
Okay, great. I'll be there next week. And you're like,
00:15:48:11 - 00:16:00:08
Jen
Yeah. And he was like, yeah, call the restaurant next week
and let me know when you can come in. And I think he did not
think I was actually going to call and I, called the following
week and he said, okay.
00:16:00:08 - 00:16:07:01
Jen
Yeah, come in on Saturday at 10 a.m.. Black pants, black
shoes, white shirt, bring your knives. And I was like,
00:16:07:01 - 00:16:09:12
Hannah
I was like, I don't have. So I had
00:16:09:12 - 00:16:13:18

Jen
one knife. It was from Crate and Barrel and I wrapped it in like
a kitchen
00:16:13:18 - 00:16:24:09
Hannah
Oh my God. Do you remember the brand or was it Crate and
Barrel brand? Crate and barrel. Oh my God. You're like, I'll
bring this. Yeah I will. This is an amazing story.
00:16:24:09 - 00:16:31:21
Jen
I show up to the restaurant. I have obviously no idea what I'm
doing, but because I'm with Brian, the sous chef. He walks me
around, he gets
00:16:31:21 - 00:16:33:02
Hannah
who you met at the bar, who I am.
00:16:33:02 - 00:16:36:07
Hannah
Okay, okay, okay. Your friend, your long lost precious,
00:16:36:07 - 00:16:56:12
Jen
and he gets me, a chef's coat, and I go, and I change into it,
and he puts me, on one of the prep stations, behind the fish
station, and he hands me, an entire tray of a Carton Hill farm,
heirloom tomatoes. And I had never seen an heirloom tomato
because this was 20 years ago.
00:16:56:14 - 00:17:00:02

Jen
And, he's like, peel these tomatoes. And I did not
00:17:00:02 - 00:17:02:07
Hannah
Oh, my God, you're also like, what? How do I do that?
00:17:02:07 - 00:17:13:00
Jen
Yeah. So you score them, and then you blanch them in boiling
water, and then you put them in an ice bath, and then you can
peel the skin off. And so they taught me how to do this. And
so I'm peeling these heirloom tomatoes.
00:17:13:00 - 00:17:32:18
Jen
And the executive chef Jean-Francois Brunel comes over and
shakes hands with everybody, at the start of the day as, as
like a matter of protocol. And so he comes to shake in with
me, and I knocked over the entire tray of peeled tomatoes on
to his feet in like, you know, the first hour.
00:17:32:18 - 00:17:33:07
Hannah
hit you?
00:17:33:07 - 00:17:34:13
Hannah
Or just really
00:17:34:13 - 00:17:43:03
Jen
shook his head and walked away, and all of the guys in the
kitchen were like, Holy shit, what did you just do?

shook his head and walked away, and all of the guys in the
kitchen were like, Holy shit, what did you just do?
00:17:43:05 - 00:18:05:10
Jen
And I was also the only woman in the kitchen. And it it is
crazy. It's gotten a little bit better, but it's still pretty true. And
and they so they sort of downgraded me. They gave me
chives to chop and scallions to peel and things like this. But,
luckily someone called out sick on the canapé station, which
is the lowest station on the line.
00:18:05:15 - 00:18:08:16
Jen
It's a two person station. And so they had me work service,
and I had no
00:18:08:16 - 00:18:11:13
Hannah
that night Saturday, Saturday night,
00:18:11:13 - 00:18:31:07
Jen
350 covers and, it is one of the only two stations in the
Danielle kitchen that has a pass where you hand the dishes
off to the servers. And so they have me, like putting a plush of
chervil onto a tiny little dish or a dot of chive oil, just like the
most menial tasks.
00:18:31:09 - 00:18:51:11
Jen
And, one of the chefs come over, comes over, and he says to
the chef, who's more senior to me, she's much more
organized than you are. She's working more cleanly than you
are. Like, she's going to take your job one day, obviously
hazing this guy. And, then I remember I'll never forget this. A
an old man comes into the kitchen with this woman who's
wearing a fur coat.

And, one of the chefs come over, comes over, and he says to
the chef, who's more senior to me, she's much more
organized than you are. She's working more cleanly than you
are. Like, she's going to take your job one day, obviously
hazing this guy. And, then I remember I'll never forget this. A
an old man comes into the kitchen with this woman who's
wearing a fur coat.
00:18:51:11 - 00:18:59:18
Jen
She's like a tall bombshell model and looks under the pass
directly at me. And he says, God bless you, you geniuses.
00:18:59:18 - 00:19:03:13
Jen
And I was like, oh my God, can I work here forever?
00:19:03:13 - 00:19:05:18
Hannah
Oh my God, that's amazing.
00:19:05:18 - 00:19:12:18
Jen
so at the end of the night, I survived and I went back up to
that chef Jean-Francois, and I said, chef, can I please come
back next week?
00:19:12:18 - 00:19:14:00
Jen
I will work for free. I will do
00:19:14:00 - 00:19:16:03
Hannah
whatever. I will not drop the tomatoes.
00:19:16:03 - 00:19:39:04

Jen
not drop the tomatoes. And he said, okay, yeah, you can
come back next week and so I ended up working at Danielle
every Saturday for a year and a half for free. It was so
amazing. It was an incredible, incredible way for me to learn,
that style of fine dining, that level of execution, that level of
seriousness.
00:19:39:06 - 00:19:46:23
Jen
But also to be around Danielle and to understand his level of
hospitality and generosity. And so that's where it sort of all
began.
00:19:46:23 - 00:19:54:06
Hannah
Yeah. I think something that's really amazing about you is that
clearly, ever since you were young, you're very dedicated to
working with the best.
00:19:54:08 - 00:20:09:06
Hannah
And you believe that if you align yourself with people who are
the most talented and the best in the industry, you will also be
the best. And I think, I mean, I assume that's the philosophy,
but I'd love to hear more of like how you think about that. And
if that's a strategy or just sort of like a neat to you.
00:20:09:06 - 00:20:24:03
Jen
Yes, I would say it is both a strategy and I believe it
wholeheartedly. And it's a piece of advice that I give to
younger people as well. It's like, better to have the lowest job
on the totem pole, in a company that is the best in its
category.

Yes, I would say it is both a strategy and I believe it
wholeheartedly. And it's a piece of advice that I give to
younger people as well. It's like, better to have the lowest job
on the totem pole, in a company that is the best in its
category.
00:20:24:05 - 00:20:45:08
Jen
And also when you are working for the best to become
indispensable to that person. And so I ended up working very
closely with Danielle, the person. Danielle the man, who is
amazing and I consider to be a real mentor and somebody
who is very dear to me. And I absorbed so much of how he
approaches work.
00:20:45:10 - 00:20:53:00
Jen
Even only having worked for him for about two and a half
years. But it was really the first job that I ever had in the
industry. But yeah, of course I always want to work with the
best.

00:20:53:00 - 00:21:01:01
Hannah
but I don't think that that's so innate to people. It certainly
wasn't to me in my when I was younger, and I made a lot of
mistakes, I think, because of it. And so where do you think
you learned that?
00:21:01:01 - 00:21:04:23
Jen
I think probably my parents,
00:21:04:23 - 00:21:18:19
Hannah
But I don't know that it was a lesson that was like drilled into
me. At least I think it is probably something that is a little bit
innate. But my brother has it too, for sure. And

But I don't know that it was a lesson that was like drilled into
me. At least I think it is probably something that is a little bit
innate. But my brother has it too, for sure. And
00:21:18:19 - 00:21:24:06
Jen
we also both have a goal, like always, to be the best at
whatever it is that we're doing.
00:21:24:08 - 00:21:46:02
Jen
And to me, it just feels like an obvious thing. Like, if you want
to learn a craft, of course you should put together a list of your
top five people or teams or companies you would want to
work with, and you just go after that wholeheartedly with like
really great cold emails and good research behind the asks
that you're asking.
00:21:46:02 - 00:21:59:22
Jen
But, yeah, I've always shot as high as possible, I would say, in
terms of who I want to collaborate with, who I want to learn
from, who I want to work with, where I want to partner with,
companies I want to partner with. That's and that's always
been the case.
00:22:00:08 - 00:22:18:22
Jacob
Yeah. I mean, there's so much. And I think, Jen, what has
been interesting as I came to know you, I think in 2011,
maybe it was. You had just moved to San Francisco, and
there was someone who worked for me that was like, oh, my
God, Jen has moved to San Francisco. And I was like, Who is
Jen Palka?

00:22:19:00 - 00:22:41:13
Jacob
And she's like raving about you just kind of blowing you up.
And so from that moment, I have kind of from afar and we've
known each other, you know, socially and in the industry, have
watched your trajectory go from so many different facets of
the industry that I think most people don't even realize is an
opportunity in the industry.
00:22:41:13 - 00:23:18:15
Jacob
And I think one of the things that I'm really excited to dig in
today about is we actually went on a walk, when we were
talking about maybe working together. And you had owned
Magnum, which was the best PR agency at the time in San
Francisco, working with the best clients, in San Francisco.
And so for me, what I thought was so interesting in that
conversation as we were going on the walk and like, listen, if
you're just looking for PR like, I'm not the person, like, I want
to go to the farm with the editor and the chef, pick the
heirloom zucchini or whatever it is, tell the story, bring them
back,
00:23:18:18 - 00:23:42:20
Jacob
and really engage in the storytelling. And it was something
that always stuck with me. The importance of telling a story
and making sure that the narrative is really rich. And I think it's
something that I've watched you do with every single kind of
facet of your career with The Riddler, obviously now with Une
Femme, and I think what I'm most excited about is you are a
superstar, right?

00:23:42:23 - 00:24:12:14
Jacob
No questions asked. You are a rock star in the industry, but
there have been some low points. And I think, you know, most
people view people like you in the industry and think, oh wow,
that's like a 1 in 1,000,000. And you are. But you know, there's
also kind of picking yourself up when you're at your lowest.
And I think I'm excited to get into the vulnerability of how
you've been able to be the best in public relations, be the best
in the champagne bar in the country.
00:24:12:20 - 00:24:39:23
Jacob
And now your mission to be the best within film wine. So I
think, you know, it's just an interesting career trajectory that
has had many highs, but also probably had some lows. And I
think, you know, for everyone listening, hearing the grit, the
resilience, the determination to keep going, is what I'm excited
to sink our teeth into.
00:24:39:23 - 00:24:42:10
Jen
well thank you.
00:24:42:12 - 00:25:14:13
Jen
That means so much. And it's very, very, very kind of you to
say, but it is absolutely true, I think, especially now on social
media, people put forward such a shiny, cleaned up version of
who they are. And I think one of the things that's been so
wonderful, actually, about the boom of podcasts and, you
know, so many of these other forms of media is that people
are being much more honest and open about the challenges
that they face as they grow their own businesses or in their
own personal lives.

That means so much. And it's very, very, very kind of you to
say, but it is absolutely true, I think, especially now on social
media, people put forward such a shiny, cleaned up version of
who they are. And I think one of the things that's been so
wonderful, actually, about the boom of podcasts and, you
know, so many of these other forms of media is that people
are being much more honest and open about the challenges
that they face as they grow their own businesses or in their
own personal lives.
00:25:14:15 - 00:25:20:12
Jen
And yeah, it's it's never easy to be is what my husband says.
00:25:20:12 - 00:25:37:15
Hannah
I know you personally, so I know some personal things that
have happened to you and sort of at the same time that you
decided, well, you you opened the Riddler, you closed
Magnum, you then Covid hit, you closed the Riddler.
00:25:37:17 - 00:26:02:18
Hannah
But in that year, you had a lot of personal things going on, too.
You lost your dad, your house burned down like a tremendous
amount of turmoil and sadness and sort of, I imagine
darkness in your life. And I remember seeing you right before
and sort of like through that and also I remember you like
reemerging and un femme was like on fire, and you were so
transformed.
00:26:02:18 - 00:26:14:20
Hannah
And I just kind that trajectory and that ability to pull yourself
out of those dark places. Really fascinating. And I just would
love for you to share with people how you do that.
00:26:14:20 - 00:26:38:22
Jen

Yeah. I mean, that year was incredibly, incredibly hard for so
many people. You know, Covid was so complicated, so
emotional, very, very challenging for businesses. And we had
just opened our New York location of the Riddler, in the fall of
2019, and it was going so incredibly well.
00:26:39:00 - 00:27:05:07
Jen
My husband and I were, splitting time between New York and
San Francisco, and then we had, a cabin in the woods in
Healdsburg. So we had two tiny, tiny, tiny studio apartments,
one in San Francisco, one in New York, both almost like
corporate apartments. And then we had really moved up to
this cabin in Healdsburg, especially during Covid itself when
everything felt like everybody wanted to be distanced.
00:27:05:07 - 00:27:29:19
Jen
And we all needed just like, a little peace of mind. And so
Charles and I were working from a place that didn't have any
Wi-Fi. So we would drive down the hill to our friend's house,
work out of their garage, who we were also distanced from.
We would take calls, we'd be on video zooms. We'd be trying
to figure out, how we could maximize our PPE loans and our
RF money and all of these kinds of
00:27:29:19 - 00:27:35:00
Hannah
so stressful. Oh my God, like even just saying the word peep.
Oh my God, that was such an awful time.
00:27:35:00 - 00:27:38:18
Jen

terrible, terrible, terrible and also lonely and,
00:27:38:18 - 00:27:41:12
Hannah
Did you not have internet by choice or by
00:27:41:12 - 00:27:56:22
Jen
where we lived, there was no cell service and no internet.
And, we had a landline, which, like our parents knew the
phone, the numbers of and my brother. And that was about it.
So, yeah, it was very, very isolating. It was incredibly fun in a
lot of ways.
00:27:56:22 - 00:28:17:13
Jen
But it was also, a really incredibly challenging environment to
be doing business in, especially because our New York team
was so afraid to go back to work because they were hearing
sirens and seeing trucks of, of, you know, bodies, in and
around New York. And so to ask them to come back to work
was something that we did.
00:28:17:13 - 00:28:38:23
Jen
But, nobody was really willing to do it. And then in San
Francisco, it was also a heavily restricted environment for
Covid. So, you know, Covid was happening. We made the
business decision to close both locations of The Riddler,
which was so heartbreaking, not only for our team, but for all
of our guests who loved the The Riddler so much.
00:28:39:01 - 00:28:47:03

Jen
And, it was also my greatest professional disappointment
because I had to go back to all of my investors and say that
we were closing
00:28:47:03 - 00:29:00:07
Hannah
yeah, I mean, what did that feel like? Was it like you could
justify it? And so it was okay. But also Covid was just so hard.
It was like everybody was kind of like, yeah, I get it. Or did it
feel did it feel like a failure or did it feel like the right choice?
00:29:00:07 - 00:29:02:02
Jen
it felt like a massive failure?
00:29:02:04 - 00:29:30:17
Jen
And I think I'm now finally sort of over it. But we of course had
several investors who were very, very upset. And I would say
by and large, our investor community was very supportive and
understanding. I think investors know that when they invest in
a startup or a company, it is a risk no matter what. But I think
there's also a tremendous amount of emotion that goes into
opening a business and making an investment.
00:29:30:17 - 00:29:31:09
Jen
And
00:29:31:09 - 00:29:43:21
Hannah
and it was so you I mean, those places were so you I mean,
we designed both. Yeah. As a in New York, but they were truly
even as your designer like they were. So you

and it was so you I mean, those places were so you I mean,
we designed both. Yeah. As a in New York, but they were truly
even as your designer like they were. So you
00:29:43:21 - 00:29:52:17
Jen
they were, they were magical places with the gold leaf ceilings
and the mixed metals and the beautiful black bars, all the
00:29:52:17 - 00:29:54:14
Hannah
custom tables from Paris.
00:29:54:14 - 00:29:55:21
Hannah
I mean, all the amazing things.
00:29:55:21 - 00:29:59:12
Jen
Yeah. The room and the, in case of emergency.
00:29:59:12 - 00:30:20:02
Jen
Shattered glass in the bathroom in New York with the
magnum of Krug in there. I mean, it was they were so much
fun. And the high, low expression of, women in one corner
who would be drinking, you know, vintage magnums of
incredibly expensive, very hard to find champagne sitting next
to a table of girls who were doing champ
00:30:20:02 - 00:30:23:00
Hannah
young and, like, just starting out in their career. Yeah.

00:30:23:00 - 00:30:42:12
Jen
they were really magical places. So it was really, really
heartbreaking to close them. And it was a massive business.
Disappointment. It was really hard on our team who had put
so much time and energy into it. So yeah, it was it was really,
really sad and really hard. It's also incredibly logistically
challenging to close a business like you have to go there.
00:30:42:12 - 00:30:49:00
Jen
You have to sell off so many items. You all the paperwork. Oh
yeah,
00:30:49:00 - 00:30:53:04
Hannah
there's grieving and there's loss and it's like, what do you do
with all the physical things about it?
00:30:53:06 - 00:30:54:08
Hannah
Yeah. It's awful.
00:30:54:08 - 00:31:05:02
Jen
And so while we were in New York, closing the location,
liquidating all of these really precious champagnes, dealing
with sort of the emotional wreckage of it, Charles, my
husband
00:31:05:02 - 00:31:11:18
Jen
called and said, I don't know if you have seen the news, but
there are some wildfires in Northern California.

called and said, I don't know if you have seen the news, but
there are some wildfires in Northern California.

00:31:11:20 - 00:31:48:19
Jen
And I was like, oh, no, you know, and he's like, they're getting
really close to the house. And, he was in San Francisco. He
was also working on reopening Suvla. He owns the Suvla
restaurants in San Francisco and we basically in in a few
hours time, lost 200 homes on our road. All down truly to like
ashes and, with it, whole community and, and all of these,
like, beautiful homes, many historic homes.
00:31:48:19 - 00:31:56:19
Jen
But also it wasn't an area of expensive homes. It was just like
these cool old houses on big pieces of land in a pretty remote
part of Healdsburg. And
00:31:56:19 - 00:32:11:14
Jen
we were very fortunate we had insurance. But many of our
neighbors did not. And, it's just a very weird experience to go
through. And it is something that actually, strangely, both my
husband and I have almost no emotions about.
00:32:11:16 - 00:32:25:02
Jen
It's like we don't there's something that happened in our
bodies, in our brains that was like, just shut that off. Yeah,
yeah. So still to this day, I mean, that was five years ago. We
will remember things that we lost.
00:32:25:02 - 00:32:33:07

Hannah
Yeah. I was at your house the other day and you're like, oh, I
think we lost the Heath Bowl. Like some people popped into
your mind and he's like, oh, yeah, the blue.
00:32:33:07 - 00:32:54:15
Jen
So, you know, it does, teach you lessons in impermanence
and, not being too attached to things, but we lost basically
everything. We owned our cookbook collections, our art, our
record collection, things from our parents. I mean, it's it's a
very, very weird and sad thing to go through, but it gives you a
lot of perspective.
00:32:54:15 - 00:33:17:18
Jen
And then the thing that happened later in, in that year was
that my father passed away from cancer and that was for sure
the most momentous thing in our family's lives. We were
we're a very, very, very close family. Or my dad was an
incredibly fun spirited, hilarious guy, and he was not expecting
to go so soon, nor were we expecting him to.
00:33:17:20 - 00:33:40:20
Jen
And so it was a really shocking loss. And, obviously still, still
really raw this many years later. And, it's just such a, such a
bummer for my brother and I and for my mom that my brother
and I are business partners, and there are so many moments
that we want to be able to share with him that we don't get to
share with him.
00:33:40:20 - 00:33:44:04

Jen
But obviously, we hope that, like, somehow he's getting the
message somewhere.
00:33:44:04 - 00:33:48:10
Hannah
He is he. I was at dinner with you guys one time and he like,
showed up. You have a number.
00:33:48:10 - 00:33:56:05
Hannah
Yeah. That you share about him. He shows up where you, But
he shows up all the time.
00:33:56:05 - 00:33:57:15
Jen
he does he does show up all the time.
00:33:57:15 - 00:34:00:15
Hannah
So, so much loss, so much,
00:34:00:15 - 00:34:01:20
Hannah
unbelievable grieving.
00:34:01:20 - 00:34:25:08
Hannah
I'm sure that you went through and all of that personally.
Professionally, you know, with your house, logistically, like, all,
you know, all through Covid, while the world was kind of
grieving and sad and scary, and then you built this
unbelievable company out of it all through, like, through it
before it, during and after it. You just kept going, like, how do
you do that?

I'm sure that you went through and all of that personally.
Professionally, you know, with your house, logistically, like, all,
you know, all through Covid, while the world was kind of
grieving and sad and scary, and then you built this
unbelievable company out of it all through, like, through it
before it, during and after it. You just kept going, like, how do
you do that?
00:34:25:08 - 00:34:56:02
Jen
I will say the act of being an entrepreneur is one of like just
keeping going. And there's a really amazing video. I don't
know what it's called, but maybe we can put it in the show
notes, a link to it. Some of this artist who there's a trampoline
and a set of stairs and there's this beautiful music playing in
the background, and it's basically like he's on the trampoline,
and then he jumps to the first stair, and then he falls off and
he goes down, and then he goes back up to the second stair,
and then he falls down.
00:34:56:02 - 00:35:25:01
Jen
He goes up to the fifth stair, he falls down, and then he goes
back to the second stair. And then and he keeps going until he
finally gets to the top. But to me, it's the perfect analogy of
what it's like to be a founder. That it is a long set of stairs to
climb and you're constantly falling off the path, but hopefully
you've got a good trampoline below you where you can just
keep popping back up, and sometimes you're going to pop
back up further along on the road than where you started.
00:35:25:03 - 00:35:47:20
Jen
And many times you're going to regress and you just have to
keep going. If you if it's the life you choose to lead. But, you
know, I had, I've had many periods of burnout. I've had many
periods of questioning. And with this business, I had a pretty
significant period of burnout last year where, you know, the
wine business is a really hard business.

And many times you're going to regress and you just have to
keep going. If you if it's the life you choose to lead. But, you
know, I had, I've had many periods of burnout. I've had many
periods of questioning. And with this business, I had a pretty
significant period of burnout last year where, you know, the
wine business is a really hard business.
00:35:47:20 - 00:35:59:00
Jen
It's a challenging business for us to be in now. And I'm
somebody who's very, very driven by momentum. And when
things are going really well, I'm like supercharged and I keep
going and I keep pressing forward and I keep my team
00:35:59:00 - 00:36:05:05
Hannah
bigger, bigger, bigger. Yeah, bigger, more vision, more
excitement. Yeah. And I like

00:36:05:05 - 00:36:08:23
Jen
feeling a constant sense of challenge and learning and
pushing.
00:36:08:23 - 00:36:24:20
Jen
And I kind of had felt like one. We weren't growing as fast as I
wanted us to be and to we were acting from a little bit of a
place of scarcity as a place as opposed to a place of
abundance. I'm much better at operating in a space of
abundance.
00:36:24:20 - 00:36:31:06
Jen
I also was a little bit of that, a place where I had felt like I had
learned a lot of what I wanted to learn.
00:36:31:06 - 00:36:32:01

Jen
And,
00:36:32:01 - 00:36:52:22
Jen
had a bit of a personal slump, but luckily I have a co-founder
who is my brother, who I love, who is amazing, who has very
similar set of traits as I do in terms of optimism and ambition
and resilience and pushing forward and creativity. But he had
a come to Jesus talk with me of like, hey, we need you.
00:36:52:22 - 00:36:53:07
Jen
Like,
00:36:53:07 - 00:37:06:15
Jen
you know, we have such an amazing team. And the team was
still operating at a really, really high caliber. And I luckily have
pushed through it, and now I'm more excited about the
business than I ever have been.
00:37:06:17 - 00:37:24:03
Jen
And I think actually, what happened was I realized that we
had been at it for five years, and I realized I had never had a
job for five years, the same job. And I was like, what's next?
What's next, what's next? And now there are so many things
that are next in the company that I'm super reinvigorated
about.

00:37:24:05 - 00:37:36:15
Jen

And I asked my husband, I was like, where do you think my
fire came back? And he was like, well, I think it was when we
were in Japan because we went, we go to Japan every
January, which we called Japan, which I hope we go together
next
00:37:36:15 - 00:37:40:00
Hannah
know we're trying to make that jump anywhere. And,
00:37:40:00 - 00:37:47:05
Jen
and we were in Japan and I got to buy uniform at so many
stores
00:37:47:05 - 00:37:48:13
Hannah
all around

00:37:48:13 - 00:38:03:07
Jen
and drink un pham that I bought at the Dean and DeLuca in
the train station at Tokyo Station, and then eat this gorgeous
bento box when we're on, like the bullet train to, an area of
the country where you
00:38:03:07 - 00:38:40:09
Jen
go for on Sundays and real cons and like, taking all these
pictures. And it was just like the freshness and newness of
seeing the wines in that environment was so exciting and so
fun for me, that it just kicked me right in the butt and right
back at it. And so, I think my only advice to people is if you are
a founder, you just have to know that you're going to go
through moments and slumps that feel hard and challenging
in the business, and you're going to feel like you're either in
quicksand or like you're just not moving as fast as you want to
be, and you kind of just have to write

go for on Sundays and real cons and like, taking all these
pictures. And it was just like the freshness and newness of
seeing the wines in that environment was so exciting and so
fun for me, that it just kicked me right in the butt and right
back at it. And so, I think my only advice to people is if you are
a founder, you just have to know that you're going to go
through moments and slumps that feel hard and challenging
in the business, and you're going to feel like you're either in
quicksand or like you're just not moving as fast as you want to
be, and you kind of just have to write
00:38:40:09 - 00:38:41:01
Jen
it out.
00:38:41:01 - 00:38:46:17
Jen
you know, there are all these analogies with gardening of like,
there's a season for I wish I had like
00:38:46:17 - 00:38:47:04
Hannah
sure,
00:38:47:04 - 00:38:49:01
Jen
the words on the tip of my tongue, but like,
00:38:49:01 - 00:38:53:02
Hannah
you know, for killing and losing or growing. Yeah.
00:38:53:02 - 00:38:54:21
Jen
spring comes like we're in the spring again.
00:38:54:21 - 00:38:56:03
Hannah

and harvesting. Yeah.
00:38:56:03 - 00:38:57:04
Jen
and it's okay.
00:38:57:04 - 00:39:03:13
Jen
I mean, I think I now this is my third serious company that I've
started
00:39:03:13 - 00:39:14:06
Jen
I have gained from those experiences a realization that the
people who make it are the ones who just keep going.
00:39:14:08 - 00:39:17:05
Jen
And it's a decision that you make.
00:39:17:05 - 00:39:27:04
Hannah
I just heard someone say, being an entrepreneur, the
difference between a great entrepreneur and a good
entrepreneur is just how much tolerance you have to endure
pain.
00:39:27:06 - 00:39:42:11
Hannah
It's just like if you can keep enduring the discomfort, the
boredom, the frustration, the amount of problems that pile and
pile and pile and get through them one by one by one. And
just like, wake up every day and be like, that's what I'm doing.
You'll be fine.

It's just like if you can keep enduring the discomfort, the
boredom, the frustration, the amount of problems that pile and
pile and pile and get through them one by one by one. And
just like, wake up every day and be like, that's what I'm doing.
You'll be fine.

00:39:42:11 - 00:39:45:12
Jen
Yeah. Absolutely. I would say that's true. And I and also like
00:39:45:12 - 00:39:49:01
Jen
I would say I'm not somebody who struggles with,
00:39:49:01 - 00:39:55:02
Jen
like hard things or not. That's not something I struggle with. I
do struggle with boredom a little bit though.
00:39:55:02 - 00:40:01:11
Jen
if I'm not seeing enough growth and forward movement, that's
where I'm like, okay,
00:40:01:11 - 00:40:05:20
Hannah
Leads me to another question I've always wanted to ask you,
which is like, how do you know when to call it?
00:40:05:20 - 00:40:15:20
Hannah
what? What's the difference between boredom and saying
like, this really isn't working, I need to make a change, or I
needed to close the Riddler. What, like how do you make
those decisions?
00:40:15:20 - 00:40:33:11

Hannah
Yeah, with the Riddler, it was just it was like a hard core
business question that we were asking ourselves. Is it
possible to run these two restaurants and two sizes because
when we come back to work and we have no revenue coming
in, and there's no end in sight of this pandemic,
00:40:33:11 - 00:40:37:00
Hannah
like, is it going to be possible for the restaurant industry to.
00:40:37:02 - 00:40:46:23
Hannah
And we had many conversations with ourselves and with a
couple of our lead investors. And, it just felt like it was the
sound business decision.
00:40:46:23 - 00:41:06:18
Jen
I think you never really, really, really know. Is this the right
thing or the wrong thing to close up shop? And it's always an
incredibly hard decision to do so. But, in that case, it was just
such a strange outlier and such an extreme business scenario
to be in. But it it definitely felt like the right decision, as hard
and disappointing as it was.
00:41:06:20 - 00:41:11:22
Jen
With Magnum, I closed Magnum because like, it had run its
course for my level of interest in it,
00:41:11:22 - 00:41:15:13
Hannah

and you just knew in your gut it wasn't right for reopening
00:41:15:13 - 00:41:22:23
Jen
reopening Magnum tomorrow if I needed a job and a career
again. And that was not unfair, fam.
00:41:22:23 - 00:41:34:16
Jen
it would be a really fun and easy thing to start up again,
because it's a services business that really just requires me or
a small team of people to execute PR strategy for great
clients.

00:41:34:18 - 00:41:39:00
Jen
But that business was really easy to wind down. We didn't
have leases to unwind.

00:41:39:00 - 00:41:42:08
Jen
it was just like a natural moment to officially close.
00:41:42:08 - 00:42:04:02
Jen
I talk to founders in, wine and spirits space all the time,
multiple times a week. I'm talking to someone today and
someone tomorrow, and it is a very, very hard business to be
in because it's heavily regulated. We have a three tier system
that requires a distributor between you and your customer,
which is either a retailer or a restaurant.
00:42:04:04 - 00:42:22:22

Jen
It requires a huge amount of capital. You have to file, all of this
legal compliance in every single state. It's a really complicated
business. So I tell people all the time, don't do it. It's I think it's
way harder than restaurants. It's way harder than launching a
traditional CPG brand.

00:42:22:22 - 00:42:24:05
Jen
But we've figured it out.
00:42:24:05 - 00:42:41:01
Jen
We've we've learned a huge amount over the last five years.
And I say all the time, like, we should write a book that's the
how to on how to do this with like, like a guidebook. Like I
would give it away for free to people, but it's almost too
complicated to explain. You kind of have to just push through
it.
00:42:41:07 - 00:42:41:14
Jen
Yeah.
00:42:41:14 - 00:42:46:19
Hannah
Just to give an opportunity to give people a little insight into
that, what do you think's been the biggest challenge of scaling
that business?
00:42:46:19 - 00:42:50:21
Jen
Hardest has been figuring out how to

00:42:50:21 - 00:43:12:10
Jen
run a national brand with a national footprint, and to figure out
marketing that reaches a large enough audience for where
you're touching enough people without spending a huge
amount of money on, like Facebook ads and Instagram ads
throwing money away there. We have a really, really unusual
path to market for our company.
00:43:12:16 - 00:43:36:05
Jen
So we launched at the Riddler, where all of our investors were
women. We had 33 investors in San Francisco, 40 in New
York, all women. And what we were finding was that so many
of our customers were asking for women made wines. It was
just like we had so many women in those spaces. You
remember them? They were they would be bursting at the
seams with like, really incredibly fashionable women of all
ages getting together for drinks and to toast to one another.
00:43:36:05 - 00:43:57:03
Jen
And we started doing many features on women made wines,
and they would outsell everything else. And so we launched
them without a business plan, without, much startup capital.
We had a small amount of friends and family money, and, you
know, with the Riddler, we had a business plan and like, hard
core fundraised.
00:43:57:03 - 00:44:00:09
Hannah
okay, so it was like, we're just going to try this and see if it
works.

okay, so it was like, we're just going to try this and see if it
works.

00:44:00:09 - 00:44:02:02
Jen
It was like truly a
00:44:02:02 - 00:44:05:23
Hannah
seems like a harder business to start that way than a
restaurant.
00:44:05:23 - 00:44:15:10
Jen
Because we had a place to sell the wines it was that was
never it was never the vision that UN Femme was going to be
a national or global brand.
00:44:15:10 - 00:44:23:06
Jen
you made it for us and for our customers. And we thought that
our friends at other restaurants and boutique wine shops
would sell it.
00:44:23:08 - 00:44:47:11
Jen
Our original vision was to have, you know, at least ten
locations of the Riddler around the world. We already had San
Francisco in New York. We were looking at champagne and
London and Tokyo and DC and Atlanta and Dallas, and LA.
So that was always the vision there. But when we closed
those two locations, we realized, well, we have uniform as a
brand with separate IP.

00:44:47:13 - 00:45:09:08
Jen
And what can we do to build this? And we originally thought
that it was going to be. Yeah. A brand that was really focused
on organic grower producer champagnes made in partnership
with amazing female winemakers who we already knew and
already loved. And it turned out that actually the the better
opportunity was more of a broad scale.
00:45:09:08 - 00:45:33:09
Jen
I don't want to say mass brand, but a brand that's focused on
volume and getting a really great quality product to a much,
much, much larger audience of people. And so now we're
focused on becoming one of the best, one of the biggest,
sparkling wine companies. And we've actually really
refocused a lot of our energy on our canned wine business,
because we've realized

00:45:33:09 - 00:45:36:11
Jen
there's a huge opportunity there.
00:45:36:13 - 00:45:46:11
Jen
We are it depends on how you define number one. But, in
some version of it, we believe that we're the third largest, but
we do believe that we're the best.
00:45:46:11 - 00:45:47:00
Hannah
service.

00:45:47:02 - 00:45:50:18
Hannah
Yeah, I love that about you. You're like, none of the other ones
matter.
00:45:50:18 - 00:45:56:18
Jen
our goal is to become the number one can wine company in
the country. And we define it really in four different categories.
00:45:56:18 - 00:46:14:13
Jen
So one is largest. So we are a market leader but we're not the
market leader right now. And so we're in the top three largest.
But and we've only done that in three years. The other two
have been around for 18 and 20 years. So we feel pretty
psyched about that stat already. The second is of course, in
terms of quality.
00:46:14:13 - 00:46:31:11
Jen
So we want to be the best wine in cans, and we also want to
be the freshest. We know that we are the only canned wine
company that's canning every single month. And so when you
drink and family, you know that you're drinking the freshest
canned wines on the market. So I already believe that we're
we're best in terms of quality.
00:46:31:11 - 00:46:43:05
Jen
We want to do a lot of things around blind tasting and getting
independent people to taste our wines. So if anyone is
listening and interested in doing these, go out and buy, all the
wines you can find, taste them blindly and, you know, let us

We want to do a lot of things around blind tasting and getting
independent people to taste our wines. So if anyone is
listening and interested in doing these, go out and buy, all the
wines you can find, taste them blindly and, you know, let us
00:46:43:05 - 00:46:45:14
Hannah
tell us ours is the best. Yeah.
00:46:45:14 - 00:46:48:11
Jen
But, you know, all of our wines are certified sustainable.
00:46:48:11 - 00:47:15:01
Jen
That's something that's really, really important to us. And
quality and taste. And creating wine specifically for cans is
something that's really important to us. I would say a third
area that we care about is operational excellence. I also
believe that we are the best operationally as a partner. And
that really all that credit goes to my brother and his team
where we work to have almost no stock outs ever.
00:47:15:03 - 00:47:42:12
Jen
We're at, I think, 99.8%, you know, in stock, in inventory,
always ready, always available. And we care a lot about being
a highly communicative organization where we're great
partners. And then the fourth area is, really working with the
best, as you said. So we methodically go through every
category that we want to work with. We identify the top three
brands that we want to work with, and we go after the number
one.

00:47:42:14 - 00:48:10:01
Jen

And if we can't get number one for some reason, we'll settle
for number two or number three. But, we work with absolutely
the best partners in aviation hotels, arenas and stadiums,
entertaining spaces, restaurants, retailers, etc. and that's
something that's incredibly important to us because we know
that the best customers are flying on Delta. They are going to
the Metropolitan Museum of Art, they are shopping at Neiman
Marcus.
00:48:10:03 - 00:48:33:11
Jen
They are staying at Marriott in Hilton Hotels. They are
traveling on Virgin Voyages. Like these are our partners, and
they matter to us because they have the best customers. And
so it's the the best and most exciting places for people to
discover us. And those kinds of companies show up for us as
great partners as well. They have very high expectations of
our ability to execute for them.
00:48:33:11 - 00:48:38:05
Jen
And so it keeps us raising our bar internally in terms of how
we operate.
00:48:38:05 - 00:48:42:20
Hannah
Yeah. The you just did it for everyone. So I want to like reflect
this back to you.
00:48:42:20 - 00:48:52:06
Hannah
But you're such an incredible goal setter and you are so clear
and you're so specific. You do all the things that goals are
supposed to be what is like Smart goals. But yeah,

But you're such an incredible goal setter and you are so clear
and you're so specific. You do all the things that goals are
supposed to be what is like Smart goals. But yeah,
00:48:52:06 - 00:49:05:19
Jen
specific mean measurable. Yes. Thank you. Actionable. Yeah.
Real. Can we ChatGPT this real quick?
00:49:05:21 - 00:49:06:17
Jen
Time bound is
00:49:06:17 - 00:49:07:18
Hannah
time bound. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:49:07:18 - 00:49:09:04
Hannah
So you, you do them and you,
00:49:09:04 - 00:49:10:21
Jen
We actually like, do Smart goals
00:49:10:21 - 00:49:23:03
Hannah
Yeah. And you but you, that's how your brain works, right. And
you create these boxes that you want things to work within so
that you can communicate the goals so that everyone on your
team knows, but also so that the world knows. And I think that
that's really amazing.
00:49:23:03 - 00:49:34:03
Hannah

I was at a dinner with you. It was an investment dinner that
you threw a table full of very smart, very engaged women.
Some of them your investors, some of them not, for Ellevest, I
think it was,
00:49:34:03 - 00:49:40:04
Hannah
you stood up at the end of the table and you said by the end
of the year, firm is going to be in three places.
00:49:40:06 - 00:49:47:19
Hannah
And you said, yeah, Yankee Stadium. And you said the white
House, the white House, and then you said the moon.
00:49:47:19 - 00:49:48:21
Jen
no, I said space.
00:49:48:21 - 00:50:06:20
Hannah
Okay. In my brain, it was the moon. Space is good enough.
Yes. Everyone. One fell out of their chairs and three women I
heard said that's why I invested in her. And so I think that
people believe you because you shoot for the moon.
00:50:06:20 - 00:50:18:13
Hannah
You work with the best, you dream huge and you're like, okay,
even if I fall short, it doesn't matter. Your vision is clear and
you're moving towards that and you don't fall short. That's the
crazy part about you. You like literally hit

00:50:18:13 - 00:50:21:19
Jen
well, we don't have Yankee Stadium yet and we
00:50:21:19 - 00:50:24:07
Jen
but we did get our partner first base.
00:50:24:07 - 00:50:26:19
Hannah
Yeah. You do you anticipate this? But
00:50:26:19 - 00:50:45:18
Jen
Blue Origin was going to be doing an all women's flight. At the
time, we did not know who was going to be going off or
anything about it, but I sent a cold email and, got a great
response from somebody. And I said, you know, if you're
going to be doing an all women's flight to space when those
women land, they've got to pop a bottle of women made
sparkling wine.
00:50:45:20 - 00:50:58:16
Jen
And they said, of course they do. And that's a great example
of just like a really specific pitch in a cold email format where,
like, it's just a no brainer for them. Why would they say no?
And so we're
00:50:58:16 - 00:51:02:11
Hannah
But the way you think about that, like if you hadn't thought of
space, you wouldn't have thought of that.

00:51:02:11 - 00:51:24:22
Hannah
You wouldn't have been able to position that pitch like you're
just so, strategic and tactical in the way that you approach
goal planning and goal setting. And I think it does tremendous
value to your business. It adds tremendous value to your
business, but it also sets you up to be able to move through
and position things for people to be able to say yes.
00:51:24:22 - 00:51:26:06
Jen
the place that this comes
00:51:26:06 - 00:51:50:21
Jen
from specifically is, when I had Magnum PR, we had our
office in the basement of the Riddler, and we would invite
editors to come for happy hour, and we would drink
champagne and eat popcorn downstairs in our Magnum office
below the Riddler. And it was incredibly, successful at us
building relationships with editors and writers because we're
like, come to our office.
00:51:50:21 - 00:52:12:02
Jen
That's basically a speakeasy below the Riddler. And let's let's
talk about what it's like to be in the media. And so we had all
of our publicists on the team, and we would have these great,
honest and open discussions. And, one of our guests was
Helen Rosner, who is the restaurant and food editor, I believe,
at The New Yorker, and an old friend of mine from from many,
many moons ago in New York.

00:52:12:02 - 00:52:21:04
Jen
And we invited her there. And someone asked the question,
you know, you must get hundreds of emails a day, and most
of them are press releases. What breaks through?
00:52:21:04 - 00:52:22:06
Jen
She said, there's only
00:52:22:06 - 00:52:26:18
Jen
really three things that break through. You have to be the first,
the best or the only.
00:52:26:18 - 00:52:32:08
Jen
And so from there, I've always advised my clients, my friends,
00:52:32:08 - 00:52:37:20
Hannah
Yeah, you've told me about 100 times, whenever I tell you an
idea, you're like, yeah, but are you the the first ambassador or
the other?

00:52:37:20 - 00:52:41:20
Jen
You just have to decide what do you want to be the first, the
best or the only that it needs to be really specific.
00:52:41:20 - 00:52:47:10
Jen

we at the Riddler want it to be the best champagne bars in
San Francisco, in New York.
00:52:47:10 - 00:52:49:01
Jen
That's easy. You can just claim that.
00:52:49:03 - 00:52:52:14
Jen
And you might be the first and the only. So therefore you're
the best.
00:52:52:14 - 00:53:07:08
Jen
You know, Suvla is the first fine casual restaurant group in the
country. It is the only restaurant group in the country that does
a fully, Greek beverage list all the way down to the sparkling
water.

00:53:07:08 - 00:53:11:05
Jen
the best Greek restaurant casual Greek restaurant in San
Francisco.
00:53:11:05 - 00:53:18:11
Jen
Like, you can go on and on and you can riff. At Magnum PR,
our goal was to be the best restaurant PR agency in San
00:53:18:14 - 00:53:26:02
Hannah
So specific. You got it. So something that people can be like,
oh, I know how to connect you to the right people. Oh, I know
how to use that thing.

So specific. You got it. So something that people can be like,
oh, I know how to connect you to the right people. Oh, I know
how to use that thing.
00:53:26:02 - 00:53:49:08
Jen
now at noon, fam, for a long time, we were trying to figure out
what is the first best are only like we were not the first or only
women's centered wine company. We were not the best
sparkling wine company in the world. That is reserved for the
champagne houses. But we have now realized we want to be
the best canned wine company in the country.
00:53:49:14 - 00:53:59:10
Jen
And that is, what we talk about all day, every day within the
company. And it allows us to say yes to certain things and
notice certain things, and it's really freeing.
00:53:59:10 - 00:54:10:07
Hannah
And the other thing that people should take away from that, I
think, is like, you don't have to have that clarity at the outset,
like you had other bests or other things, and you're working
towards a vision as long as you have
00:54:10:07 - 00:54:13:11
Hannah
something you're moving towards your first, your best and
your only can change.
00:54:13:13 - 00:54:17:02
Hannah
But the closer you get to it and the more clear it is, the easier
it is to get to.

00:54:17:02 - 00:54:19:20
Hannah
Absolutely. And you really know when it's working.
00:54:19:20 - 00:54:21:08
Hannah
Yeah. You're like, oh, that's it.
00:54:21:08 - 00:54:32:06
Jen
You're like struggling to figure it out. You're pushing, you're
moving the ball here, you're moving the ball there. You're not
getting the right customers. You're not getting the right quote
unquote product market fit.
00:54:32:06 - 00:54:37:03
Jen
And then when you find the thing that you are and you can go
deep on that, it it's
00:54:37:03 - 00:54:44:08
Hannah
just like a slow state. Yeah, that happened with us. And I
remember I this was like a lesson I learned from you, but I
said I want to be the
00:54:44:08 - 00:54:49:19
Hannah
best restaurant design studio in America. And it was like, once
you say it, you're like, oh, well, now we know how to get there.
00:54:49:22 - 00:54:54:15

Hannah
Yeah, it makes it so easy. I mean, so easy. We say that. Yes.
00:54:54:15 - 00:54:56:09
Hannah
Jacob, do you have questions you want to jump into?
00:54:56:15 - 00:55:13:02
Jacob
I am Kirsten going back to the fire. I think there was an
interesting dichotomy there of your ability to not allow yourself
to feel or process. But then you also said it gave you
perspective.
00:55:13:02 - 00:55:19:05
Jacob
So what was that perspective? And I think for that year, that
was really hard for you. What did you learn?
00:55:19:05 - 00:55:21:17
Jen
I think the perspective.
00:55:21:17 - 00:55:42:20
Jen
Was around what is really important. And I actually think I
gained the most perspective around losing my dad as
opposed to losing the house. I think if I had lost the house in a
year when so many other tragic things were not happening, it
would have felt so monumental.

00:55:43:01 - 00:55:59:23
Jen

And so we would have just put all of our emotional energy into
it. Yeah. Well, it's I mean, I think it's like why people do cold
plunges, or like run 50 mile runs because it makes other
things that
00:55:59:23 - 00:56:00:20
Hannah
feel easier.
00:56:00:20 - 00:56:03:14
Jen
used to feel hard. Not that hard.
00:56:03:14 - 00:56:06:15
Jen
you gain a lot of resilience from those things in those
moments.
00:56:06:15 - 00:56:08:13
Jen
I don't do cold plunges or run 50
00:56:08:13 - 00:56:10:06
Hannah
year. Like I wouldn't know runs.
00:56:10:06 - 00:56:33:09
Hannah
But I know that that's one of the benefits that you get. Yeah.
But I think the perspective that I gained in in that year, those
two years was really like what's important, how life is short
and you've got to squeeze as much out of it as you, that you
want to be doing a job in a career because it takes so much of
your time that feels really fulfilling for yourself.

But I know that that's one of the benefits that you get. Yeah.
But I think the perspective that I gained in in that year, those
two years was really like what's important, how life is short
and you've got to squeeze as much out of it as you, that you
want to be doing a job in a career because it takes so much of
your time that feels really fulfilling for yourself.
00:56:33:09 - 00:56:47:20
Hannah
That's giving back to a broader community of people. When
you're working with people who you really love to work with
and, you're bringing something new into the world that's
positive and that's my joy. And so they can celebrate around
in our case,
00:56:47:20 - 00:56:57:01
Jen
The thing that I'm most grateful for with this company is the
relationship that I have with my brother, who, is an amazing,
amazing guy.
00:56:57:01 - 00:57:27:04
Jen
And who I get to build this brand with. And we push each
other every day to think bigger, to push further to have more
fun. We, you know, as a company, even though we're only a
team of ten people, we still do formal quarterly reviews and all
these kinds of things. And his review of me this year, it was at
the end of last year in my sort of burnout phase, and his big
piece of feedback for me was, we need to have more fun.
00:57:27:06 - 00:57:47:17
Jen
Like, we can't lose sight of the fact that, of course, this is a
serious business that we've raised a lot of money for. We
have a large fiduciary responsibility to our investors, to our
team, to our partners. It is a hard business. There are
challenges every day. But like we've got to remember, we're
selling like sparkling wine to millions of

Like, we can't lose sight of the fact that, of course, this is a
serious business that we've raised a lot of money for. We
have a large fiduciary responsibility to our investors, to our
team, to our partners. It is a hard business. There are
challenges every day. But like we've got to remember, we're
selling like sparkling wine to millions of
00:57:47:17 - 00:57:50:11
Hannah
people. And you're like, it's our this is what we spend our time
doing.
00:57:50:12 - 00:57:52:22
Hannah
Yeah. So like we might enjoy it.
00:57:52:22 - 00:58:11:05
Jen
So we I really, really took that to heart. And, we went through
a big rebrand this year with that in mind. And our new tagline
is pairs well with fun. And we're just like, really spending a lot
more dedicated time having more fun with the brand, with the
company, with the team.
00:58:11:09 - 00:58:14:11
Jen
And I will say everybody works a lot harder when they're
having fun.
00:58:14:11 - 00:58:16:05
Hannah
That's true.
00:58:16:05 - 00:58:20:15
Jen
like everybody. Everybody likes, especially in the wine space
to work with brands that are fun.

00:58:20:15 - 00:58:31:00
Hannah
But sometimes that's also like an arc of the business. Like you
can go through hard times and you kind of have to have
people who are, like, willing to be in the group with you, and
then you're like, oh, we're doing better.
00:58:31:00 - 00:58:36:16
Hannah
We're selling more, you know, whatever. You have a moment
of relief and you can kind of get to this point,
00:58:36:16 - 00:58:54:21
Jen
I think the other piece of perspective that I gained, Jacob was
just the realization that, like, you can push through hard
moments and come out the other side and you've got to give
yourself some grace during those periods of time.
00:58:54:23 - 00:59:16:10
Jen
And you also really, really have to rely on your community.
Like Charles, my husband Zach, my brother, my mom, my
closest girlfriends. Like you've got to you've got to really lean
in on your people when you're going through those hard
moments, and they'll show up for you again and again and
again. And it's I'm so grateful for it.
00:59:16:10 - 00:59:45:11
Hannah
Yeah, yeah. You have a really nice community. I know Charles
is such a, incredible partner for you in so many ways. But
also, I think it's so cool being married to an entrepreneur of
sort of equal integrity and values. And you both do things for
love and for passion, but you're also very serious
entrepreneurs who are, you know, trying to you're taking
these tremendous risks and you're you're, you know, dealing
with investors and complicated structures.

Yeah, yeah. You have a really nice community. I know Charles
is such a, incredible partner for you in so many ways. But
also, I think it's so cool being married to an entrepreneur of
sort of equal integrity and values. And you both do things for
love and for passion, but you're also very serious
entrepreneurs who are, you know, trying to you're taking
these tremendous risks and you're you're, you know, dealing
with investors and complicated structures.
00:59:45:12 - 01:00:02:21
Hannah
And I'm just sure I mean, you know, I'm married to an
entrepreneur tour, and there's so much value in being able to
have someone who's willing to talk it through with you at
dinner, at coffee, before you go to bed whenever you need it.
Sort of. I mean, I don't think most relationships operate that
way.
01:00:02:21 - 01:00:31:06
Jen
There is absolutely no way that I could have my business or
businesses. If I didn't have Charles in my life in my corner,
helping me to think through the different angles and
supporting me, encouraging me, pushing me, calling me out
when I, getting into, like, old patterns of whatever this thing's
happened to be or, and frankly, some of mine are like,
dreaming too big and
01:00:31:06 - 01:00:32:19
Hannah
delusional.
01:00:32:19 - 01:00:37:03
Hannah
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's very much like, okay, back, back your
sister.

01:00:37:03 - 01:00:38:22
Jen
Let's see it. How are you going to operate it?
01:00:38:22 - 01:00:48:03
Hannah
Or I think sometimes he's very much like, are you thinking
about how that's going to affect our life? Like, are you thinking
about how that's going to affect me, but also you, but also
your happiness? Like, why are you doing that?
01:00:48:04 - 01:00:49:05
Hannah
He's very good at that. You have
01:00:49:05 - 01:00:54:11
Jen
like such a wonderful life that we that is so rich that we enjoy
so much.
01:00:54:13 - 01:00:55:05
Jen
We moved
01:00:55:05 - 01:00:57:14
Hannah
He's like, don't screw that up.
01:00:57:14 - 01:01:12:08
Jen
totally, totally. He's better at keeping it on the rails than I am.
But he is, absolutely, absolutely. But I, I can't recommend
more being married to a fellow entrepreneur. As an
entrepreneur.

totally, totally. He's better at keeping it on the rails than I am.
But he is, absolutely, absolutely. But I, I can't recommend
more being married to a fellow entrepreneur. As an
entrepreneur.
01:01:13:00 - 01:01:13:21
Hannah
Thank you guys.
01:01:13:21 - 01:01:23:23
Jen
it is just such a specific journey that, you need people
supporting you around you, but also, it's really, really fun to
get to talk about
01:01:23:23 - 01:01:38:01
Hannah
I want to talk a little bit about, like, your leadership style. I
think you have very specific things that you like to do as a
leader and very specific things that you're like, not my favorite
part. And also, how do you get better at the things you don't
like?
01:01:38:05 - 01:01:39:17
Hannah
How do you focus on them?
01:01:39:17 - 01:02:11:04
Jen
I think that my leadership approach is probably pretty intuitive.
And I think I'm a good communicator and a great vision setter
and communicating that vision out. I realize that I am not a
good manager and I don't love my day to day management of
people, particularly team members who are not people who
are like, struggling in their roles or who are not very motivated
in their roles.

I think that my leadership approach is probably pretty intuitive.
And I think I'm a good communicator and a great vision setter
and communicating that vision out. I realize that I am not a
good manager and I don't love my day to day management of
people, particularly team members who are not people who
are like, struggling in their roles or who are not very motivated
in their roles.

01:02:11:04 - 01:02:22:12
Jen
I find it really, really hard to manage someone in that space.
Whereas there are many people who, can work with more
junior team members who and
01:02:22:12 - 01:02:25:04
Hannah
I love being a teacher. Yeah, I
01:02:25:04 - 01:02:44:07
Jen
love working with people who are subject area experts who
are super motivated, super creative, super collaborative, and
they own their shit. And we have a team that every single
person on the team is like that.
01:02:44:09 - 01:03:04:13
Jen
Yes. And it does require that we like, interview and retain
people who are really, really good at what they do and who
are really smart and who are curious and who are like, oh,
let's see how we can use ChatGPT in our workflow. You know,
people who are open to learning, who read a lot of books,
who listen to a lot of podcasts or like always pushing
themselves,
01:03:04:13 - 01:03:09:14
Jen
I would say my leadership style is as inclusive as it possibly
can be.

01:03:09:16 - 01:03:27:09
Jen
But sometimes I realize I have to, like, make a decision and,
and make the call and move forward. I think our team in
general is pretty good at disagree and commit and, but we
have a set of ten values that we, that Zach and I developed at
an offsite. I don't know,
01:03:27:09 - 01:03:28:18
Jen
probably seven years ago.
01:03:28:20 - 01:03:44:13
Jen
And one of them, one of my favorite values is engineer for
awesome. So we always are looking for what are things that
we can do that are not very expensive but that are really
remarkable, really memorable. And that are really fun. So
that's, I think, a good example of the space thing.
01:03:44:13 - 01:03:50:10
Jen
We try to live by the, by the coda of if it's if it's not a hell.
01:03:50:10 - 01:03:52:09
Jen
Yeah. It's a, it's a fuck. Now,
01:03:52:09 - 01:03:56:23
Jen
We I mean, first best and only really helps you to do it really,
really helps you to do it.

01:03:56:23 - 01:04:05:16
Hannah
And you're just so good at setting a vision that it even if you
don't have your first best and only yet or you're, like, working
towards clarity on what you're really going to be the first best
are only at
01:04:05:16 - 01:04:10:01
Hannah
I remember the first we were working on The Riddler and you
were like, dreaming up and femme
01:04:10:01 - 01:04:14:10
Hannah
You were, like, showing me things, and you were, like, on
your phone, and you were so excited, and you were so,
01:04:14:10 - 01:04:16:06
Hannah
I was like, wow, that's incredible
01:04:16:06 - 01:04:18:06
Hannah
you're you're really inspiring visionary.
01:04:18:08 - 01:04:20:05
Hannah
I'd say that's like one of the best parts about you.
01:04:20:05 - 01:04:20:20
Jen
thanks.

01:04:20:20 - 01:04:44:03
Jen
I would say the the other piece on the leadership side, is I am
always trying to push and learn and to grow personally. So I
read a lot. And one of the areas that I love to read are books
that are about whether it's like your relationship with your self,
which I think is probably the most important thing to figure out
so that you can feel comfortable with yourself and your
decisions and your value system.
01:04:44:06 - 01:05:09:22
Jen
So you can lead really by example. But also around. Yeah,
dealing with resilience. So two of my favorite books, that are
that I go back to again and again and again when I'm in
challenging leadership moments. One is the obstacle is the
way, which is, yeah, it's based off of like stoic principles. And
it's really great when you're dealing with a moment of
challenge.
01:05:09:22 - 01:05:28:03
Jen
So I always recommend that to team members if they're in a
moment like that, or friends, other colleagues. So the obstacle
is the way is one, and the second is called the Four
Agreements. Oh, God, it's so good to have these four tenants
that you should live your life by. And I often read them in
tandem or like one right after another.
01:05:28:05 - 01:05:30:03
Jen
In those sort of challenging moments.

01:05:30:03 - 01:05:37:17
Hannah
is there a leadership decision that you had to make? I mean,
throughout obviously like closing the river and things like that
are more obvious ones, but is there one you haven't shared
yet?
01:05:37:17 - 01:05:38:13
Hannah
That
01:05:38:13 - 01:05:41:09
Hannah
it, like, scared you or you really weren't sure.
01:05:41:09 - 01:05:52:14
Jen
Yeah. I mean with uniform as a business and as a company,
we ultimately have, really important financial responsibility to
our investors.
01:05:52:14 - 01:06:15:17
Jen
We've raised about $16 million into the business at this point.
Yeah. It's a it's a lot of money and it's, a huge amount of
responsibility. And we went through a period about a year and
a half ago where we realized that our team was too large and
that certain sectors of the business, specifically our regional
sales strategy, was it just wasn't working financially.
01:06:15:19 - 01:06:39:03
Jen

And we had to make a decision to lay off, a large portion of
our team, of really talented people who we felt were doing,
they were putting forth a great effort, but there wasn't a
business case to keep them on. And we worked really hard as
a leadership team to figure out if we could keep them.
01:06:39:05 - 01:06:56:17
Jen
And just looking at the numbers over a long period of time,
and we just realized it wasn't working. And so we had to let
them go. And so we obviously tried to do it in a way that was
as humane as possible and gave people, reasonable
severance package and offered to, you know, make
recommendations and references for them.
01:06:56:19 - 01:06:59:00
Jen
But doing layoffs is always really hard,
01:06:59:00 - 01:07:01:16
Jen
I don't have as much of a problem firing people.
01:07:01:16 - 01:07:14:22
Hannah
But I think that that goes that, like, goes back to your your,
clarity on your own values, like, it's probably easier for you to
fire people because you're, like, they're just not a good fit. It is
what it is. Or like they did something wrong or like whatever.
Like you're like, it's not aligned with the values of the
business.
01:07:14:22 - 01:07:16:05

Hannah
And we need to move on,
01:07:16:05 - 01:07:19:10
Jen
And also, you hope that you have given that person enough
01:07:19:10 - 01:07:23:21
Jen
feedback over a long enough period of time and given them
the opportunity to grow and evolve.
01:07:23:21 - 01:07:44:18
Jacob
I think everything you've done has been so female focused,
which is incredible. And I think it's been inspiring for a lot of
people, not just women. I've been inspired by you and your
journey, but I am curious if you see a shift in the industry
where there's not these lanes that have to be defined by
person of color, woman, you know, LGBTQ like.
01:07:44:20 - 01:08:08:17
Jacob
And we are moving to a world where we are just doing what
we're doing and supporting businesses because they're doing
really great things. And I ask that question through the lens of
like, you know, there's women things that I really want to be a
part of. There's certain person of color, things that I want to be
part of, that I don't always feel as welcome and so curious
like, and I always felt welcome.
01:08:08:17 - 01:08:32:21
Jacob

At the Riddler I visited often. It was like two streets for my
house. But just curious. Like at large in the industry, especially
with the shift of what's happening with like Dei being roll back,
you know, where do you see the industry going? And kind of
that more mass appeal. Kumbaya. Are we working towards a
world together or are we still kind of in our own lanes?
01:08:33:06 - 01:08:38:21
Jen
This is such a good, important question and one that we have
talked about so much internally as a team
01:08:38:21 - 01:08:47:00
Jen
you know, the conversation has evolved so much over the
past five years when we launched The Riddler in 2017,
01:08:47:00 - 01:08:55:23
Jen
the idea of having an all women funded business was like
absolute mind explosion. And
01:08:55:23 - 01:09:01:05
Jen
it was an incredible tool for us to build community. And it was
really newsworthy,
01:09:01:05 - 01:09:04:00
Hannah
like totally. People talked about it nonstop. Yeah.
01:09:04:16 - 01:09:26:23
Jen

It was such an amazing tool for us in attracting talent, in being
a gathering place for women and men. But largely you would
look around the dining room and it was generally like 80 to
90% women on most nights. And it just became this incredibly
fun gathering place for so many people who wanted to be
supportive of women.
01:09:27:01 - 01:09:57:21
Jen
And then, as I said, we started doing the many features
around women. And our guests would ask us, where can I find
wines made by women? So I was like, there should be a
brand for this. Why is there not a brand for this? And so it all
happened organically. But then I do feel like with the
conversation we got ourselves a little bit in a box and we
talked about this topic of women supporting women or people
supporting women in a way that became
01:09:57:21 - 01:10:03:11
Jen
it was starting to feel almost a little too like this should be
table stakes at this point.
01:10:03:13 - 01:10:22:15
Jen
And we've spent the last year really talking about this a lot as
a team of how do we want to show up for women or talk about
women or be about women? And does it need to be as literal
as it needed to be five years ago? And the answer is no. It
doesn't need to be as literal.

01:10:22:17 - 01:10:45:18
Jen

You know, we're we're so incredibly grateful that so many of
our early partners began working with us because they were
working on creating a more diverse set of customers that they
wanted to work with. And this was part of their corporate
mandates, because leadership was realizing when you have
more diverse partners around the table, you're getting you're
serving your audience in a better way, and you're getting
interesting new products.
01:10:45:18 - 01:11:11:10
Jen
It's also the right thing to do. Obviously, that conversation has
evolved over time. Many of our partners still love working with
us because we are women lead. But we also have realized
that we need to not only deliver to the standard of what is
typical, we need to overperform, because there has
developed a stigma in some areas around this.
01:11:11:10 - 01:11:43:00
Jen
Right? So I feel like it's something that we used to lead with,
and now it's something that's in the background. And for us,
we are really thinking about how do we show up for our
community in the right way. It used to be really very, very
supportive programs highlighting women doing extraordinarily
exciting things. So, for example, we used to have a program
called the Hall of Fame where named by Charles, where, we
would highlight women who had shattered glass ceilings.
01:11:43:02 - 01:11:54:02
Jen
And, we highlighted 365 women who were selected by
women and men in the community. I believe that you,
Hannah, are one of them. We would send,

And, we highlighted 365 women who were selected by
women and men in the community. I believe that you,
Hannah, are one of them. We would send,
01:11:54:02 - 01:11:57:00
Hannah
was so cool. It was really cool. So cool. We would
01:11:57:00 - 01:12:07:13
Jen
send a crate of wine with our wine in there with, piece of, stunt
glass and hammer. And so you could literally shatter the glass
ceiling and, like, that's so cool.
01:12:07:15 - 01:12:31:03
Jen
And the idea that people were nominating women in their lives
who had done something where they were the first or the only
in their community to do something, obviously, celebrating
these amazing women was such an important thing. It was a
really cool marketing campaign. Everybody was posting it on
social. And then our next evolution of that was a focus around
gathering, because we realized that there's tremendous
power in women gathering together, supporting each other.
01:12:31:09 - 01:12:36:16
Jen
Now we've evolved to a place of honestly fun, like, I feel like
01:12:36:16 - 01:12:42:06
Hannah
that which feels relevant to like the world landscape is like
people need joy.
01:12:42:06 - 01:13:03:11

Jen
people need joy. Like the political conversation is so charged
and I know a lot of people, especially people who spend a lot
of time online, who feel pretty hopeless and pretty scared and
pretty nervous, and the way that me and my friends are
showing up for each other is just getting together and having
fun.
01:13:03:11 - 01:13:21:23
Jen
in a lot of those conversations, people are also talking about
what do I want to do, how do I want to make an impact, etc..
But I think for me, Jacob, the way that I think a lot about it is
like at this point it should be table stakes that we are
supporting companies with diverse leaders.
01:13:22:01 - 01:13:47:11
Jen
We should be funding companies with diverse leaders
whenever possible. We partner with companies and brands
that have diverse leadership. But it doesn't have to be so
black and white of women supporting women. It's like, this is a
cool brand. It happens to have a female CEO, but it also
happens to have a male co-founder who's my brother who is
along for the ride with me as well.
01:13:47:11 - 01:13:53:11
Jen
And like the two of us, are grinding it out day in and day out
with our big team of people. And,
01:13:53:11 - 01:14:02:04
Jen

What we've realized is the conversation around, supporting
diverse leaders has evolved, and we have to evolve in that as
well.
01:14:02:04 - 01:14:19:03
Jacob
Yeah, I am curious. Your career, you've from fine dining to
kind of literally and figuratively going to space. What is the
next business that you have not opened? Question one. And
question two. If you were not going to work in hospitality, what
job would you
01:14:19:03 - 01:14:21:07
Jen
Okay, well, the next
01:14:21:07 - 01:14:37:08
Jen
career I would like to have after the firm has completely run its
course and we can't do anything else of it, which will be many
years from now. Is I would love to become a cookbook author
and maybe a person who cooks on TV.
01:14:37:08 - 01:14:38:22
Hannah
know garden and you're I know.
01:14:38:22 - 01:14:47:17
Jen
And a big portion of that would be around gardening. I feel like
I'm always looking for great gardening books and tips, and
01:14:47:17 - 01:14:50:18

Hannah
you're a great gardener. You're a great gardener.
01:14:50:18 - 01:14:57:12
Hannah
I've seen your garden. I've just. And your chickens and your
pruning, and you're. I mean, you're amazing,
01:14:57:12 - 01:15:00:01
Jen
a lot of the gardening content is really inaccessible.
01:15:00:01 - 01:15:01:02
Hannah
So yeah, I really is
01:15:01:02 - 01:15:19:19
Jen
some sort of. Yeah, third act as a cookbook recipe developer,
etc.. Another business I would be interested in opening would
be something in Sonoma that is a real community center that
brings together a lot of different businesses, everything from
restaurants to stores to,
01:15:19:19 - 01:15:22:18
Jen
experience centers, gardening center, etc..
01:15:22:20 - 01:15:28:05
Jen
In Sonoma, we have an amazing community and wonderful
people, but we're lacking some shopping.

01:15:28:05 - 01:15:30:16
Hannah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, a place to be for sure.
01:15:30:17 - 01:15:37:00
Hannah
Do you feel like you're building towards a legacy, or are you
just like building as you go?
01:15:37:00 - 01:15:48:02
Jen
that's such a nice question. I do not think in terms of legacy,
but I do want to prove with family
01:15:48:02 - 01:15:49:13
Jen
that we can be
01:15:49:13 - 01:15:58:20
Jen
the wine brand co-founded by a woman that is private equity
backed, that can sell for a crazy amount of money.
01:15:58:20 - 01:16:02:23
Hannah
Yeah. I want you to prove that. Yes. That's amazing.
01:16:02:23 - 01:16:22:09
Jen
that hasn't happened yet. There have been a lot of amazing
women led wine companies that have come before us that
have sold, but none of them have been at the banner level.
Yeah. And I of course I want it because, like, I want to change
the lives of everybody on my team and investors and myself.

that hasn't happened yet. There have been a lot of amazing
women led wine companies that have come before us that
have sold, but none of them have been at the banner level.
Yeah. And I of course I want it because, like, I want to change
the lives of everybody on my team and investors and myself.
01:16:22:11 - 01:16:27:04
Jen
But I also want to do it just to prove it's possible and to, like,
set the path for other people.
01:16:27:04 - 01:16:30:11
Hannah
Are there any questions people never ask you that they would
you wish that they would.
01:16:30:11 - 01:16:33:12
Jen
the questions around being a co-founder
01:16:33:12 - 01:16:34:20
Jen
with a sibling,
01:16:34:20 - 01:16:35:23
Hannah
Yeah, I was going to ask you that,
01:16:35:23 - 01:16:39:21
Jen
is really fun. It's a fun topic. We have so much fun doing it.
01:16:39:21 - 01:16:44:19
Hannah
Is it what, you thought it would be harder? So much better. So
much better. Yeah. That's cool.

01:16:44:19 - 01:16:47:07
Jen
so much better than when I thought it would be. It's so fun.
01:16:47:07 - 01:16:53:12
Jen
it's so much fun. The highs are so high and the lows are a lot
higher than they would be otherwise.
01:16:53:12 - 01:17:02:02
Hannah
Okay. So we're going to do a rapid fire. Okay. Here we go.
And I purposely didn't give this year ahead of time.
01:17:02:03 - 01:17:03:06
Hannah
Hospitality is.
01:17:03:06 - 01:17:06:04
Jen
taking care of people.
01:17:06:10 - 01:17:08:14
Hannah
What have you recently changed your mind about?
01:17:08:14 - 01:17:10:20
Jen
That's a hard one.
01:17:11:08 - 01:17:17:13
Jen
The possibility that I might need a spiritual home.

01:17:17:13 - 01:17:23:00
Hannah
Love that. What lessons taken you the longest to learn?
01:17:23:09 - 01:17:28:08
Jen
Pure, complete. Trust.
01:17:28:16 - 01:17:29:12
Hannah
Coffee or tea?
01:17:29:12 - 01:17:30:20
Jen
Coffee. Black.
01:17:30:20 - 01:17:32:17
Hannah
Love it. That's like everyone's answer.
01:17:32:17 - 01:17:39:12
Jen
And I prefer, like, diner coffee to, like, third wave coffee. I don't
like high acid, lightly roasted coffee.
01:17:39:12 - 01:17:41:21
Hannah
yeah.
01:17:41:21 - 01:17:43:09
Hannah
Do you have a hospitality crush?

01:17:43:17 - 01:17:45:22
Jen
Yes. The Maguire Mormon group
01:17:45:22 - 01:17:49:14
Hannah
Oh, yeah. Totally. My mama,
01:17:49:14 - 01:17:59:18
Jen
I love how they can do the high low so well. And they create
places that are so experiential. And the brands are on fire.
And the food's great.
01:17:59:18 - 01:18:05:12
Jen
And they they hire great people there. They just really know
what they're doing. Also Hill Stone.
01:18:05:12 - 01:18:10:02
Hannah
Oh, yeah. Well, I was going to say, do you have, anybody
have your loyalty.
01:18:10:02 - 01:18:10:19
Jen
Delta
01:18:10:19 - 01:18:16:19
Hannah
Delta Delta. There you go. And favorite seasoning or
ingredient.

01:18:16:19 - 01:18:19:13
Jen
Salt.
01:18:19:13 - 01:18:22:22
Hannah
Favorite. We'll end with this one. Your favorite hospitality
memory.
01:18:25:20 - 01:18:33:01
Jen
Visiting Danielle has a surprise on my second date with
Charles.
01:18:33:01 - 01:18:51:03
Jen
I took him to Danielle, like, truly, truly as a surprise on his trip
to New York. When he came out to see me. And Danielle
came and sat down with us at the table and for our meal, and
just treated us to such extraordinary hospitality and made us
feel so warm and welcome and happy to be there.
01:18:51:05 - 01:18:53:10
Jen
Even though he had fired me twice from
01:18:53:10 - 01:18:59:03
Hannah
five. Yeah. One for the tomatoes. No, no, they let you go.
01:18:59:05 - 01:19:00:10
Hannah

You

01:19:00:10 - 01:19:04:18
Jen
no. Once I got fired because I started working on a cookbook
and he found out about it

01:19:04:18 - 01:19:06:21
Hannah
Shut up. Yeah. He's like, that's a no no.
01:19:06:21 - 01:19:14:21
Jen
Well, because I asked if he would write a blurb and I was like,
22 and had worked in the kitchen for like, maybe a year. And
he was like, who is this girl now?
01:19:14:21 - 01:19:26:23
Jen
You're fired. And then the second time I got fired because I
was working for the book for the culinary competition, and I
wasn't very good at managing the budget. So. But we still
have a wonderful, wonderful relationship.
01:19:26:23 - 01:19:28:14
Hannah
That's nice. Amazing.
01:19:28:14 - 01:19:33:13
Jacob
Let everybody know where they can find you both personally
and also with food and fin wines.

01:19:33:13 - 01:19:38:23
Jen
on Instagram, we're at Uniform Wines. Our website is in
Femme wines.com.
01:19:38:23 - 01:19:42:18
Jen
I'm personally on Instagram, but I haven't posted in probably
two years.
01:19:42:18 - 01:19:46:22
Jen
So I met Jen Peltier. You can follow me there and maybe one
day I'll post again.
01:19:46:22 - 01:19:51:13
Hannah
Well, thank you, John, that's been absolutely invigorating. I
love talking to you. I talk to you for hours.
01:19:51:13 - 01:19:53:05
Jacob
Jen, thanks again for joining us today.
01:19:53:05 - 01:19:55:21
Jen
thank you, thank you and thank you, Jacob.

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